As a warrior I say those who say pallies shouldn't have this are ^&*!ing morons !

This kind of stuff is looted from high level instances and in this case the role of the warriors is before anything TO TANK.

In these instances their duty is to collect as much stuff as possible prioritarly FOR RECEIVING DAMAGES, prefering might or wrath (with defense skills and fire resist)

Pallys on their hand, will look prioritarly for their set because it fits them well for these instances.

ON THE CONTRARY this helm is more orientated towards PVP, It will show the most of its potential on the battlefields and not in MC or BWL
Therefore ANY player who has enough dkps and who think it fits his class in pvp is allowed to roll for it.

Комментарий от Thottbot

this dropped on our 2nd vael kill, paladins were not allowed to roll.
I as a paladin didnt really care :P
Power to the warriors for this, its an awesome helm.

Комментарий от Thottbot

Alright. Go do a thottbot search for helms. Search for all plate helms that have intellect and strength, both greater than 1. You will find a total of two helms. One is lawbringer helm. The other is lightforge. With lightforge being out of the question, this leaves lawbringer helm with a total of 9 strength and ~22 stamina. Compare lawbringer helm to this for PvP, and you will easily notice that this helm is completely and totally viable for paladins.

If you want this for tanking, you can get helm of wrath instead. For healing, paladins can get judgement helm or lawbringer. For PvP, both warriors and paladins should choose this.

Now it may not have intellect, but warriors over-estimate how much intellect paladins actually need. In PvP, 4000 mana will work wonders and keep me alive for ages. My mana regens very, very fast. That's around 50 intellect total not counting enchantments on all my gear. With mixing and matching, it isn't hard at all to get up to 5000 mana while keeping ~4800 health and ~1000 attack power (with blessing of might it should be a bit higher).

Would you like an example of another helm made for a paladin?

https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=40097

There you are. A paladin-only helm with absolutely no intellect what-so-ever. It's built for PvP (obviously), and is almost exactly like this helm concerning stats. Even the Lieutenant Commander's helm has no intellect, yet has similar stats to this.

So how about next time, instead of trying to tell paladins how to play their character, you realize that they can easily do both? Next time you want to limit the rolls to only one specific class, perhaps look at other gear made specifically for that class? Instead of telling paladins that they'll never be able to deal as much damage as you, you should just continue getting your ass kicked by paladins in half the quality gear you have.

Комментарий от Thottbot

looks like crap, but hey, it's red B)

And yes, any good guild would exclude this item to paladins unless a warrior isn't willing to take it

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/Henny117/me.jpg

Комментарий от Thottbot

Sigh ... to the coment above. "pallies dont do damage. Leave it to the Mages/Rogues"
I noticed how you diddnt say mages / rogues / wars. This helm is not for either a pally OR a war for there true roles. Its just as much NOT a tanking helm .. as it is NOT a suport healer helm. My point ? this is a good pvp/damadge build helm for EITHER class. The Raid point system was designed for this reason /.... Who ever "wants" it more should get it. who ever bids the most points gets straight up. I dont see how any logical person could argue this point.

Комментарий от Thottbot

I hear many people saying: "Pallies wont need it in MC/BWL/Ony as they only heal".
This is true, but, I doubt all pallies wanting this is planning to stay in MC/BWL/Onylair all their playtime..

And btw.. Warriors wouldnt really need this helm for tanking, which mainly warriors do in either of those instances. It's better for PvP or solo PvE.

But still u claim warriors should have it 'cause pallies have no use for it in raidgroups? *Sigh*

Wish that blizz would make two different types of plate, one for paladins and one for warriors. These discussions wouldn't be necesarry if so.

Комментарий от Thottbot

Yes, I do agree that this can be both a pally and warrior item- obviously, because it's plate with tons of strength and stamina. A lot of people on here- particularly pallies- have said that warriors don't really need this because warriors are tanks. But not so... not so at all. In the high-end game instances, there are usually about 5-6 warriors, 2-3 of which are tanks. The others, my dear WoWers, are there for DPS. And while warriors gain more attack power from strength than they do agility, agility helps warriors with crit. percentage. This helm would help a DPS warrior TONS in both PvP and PvE. Yes, there are dmg pallies, but if those DPS pallies see one of their guild members going down, guess what- they have to take a step back and heal (if they're any good), which takes time away from doing damage. WARRIORS don't have that ability- they have to do as much damage as they possibly can as quickly as they possibly can.

Sure, both can use it, this is a great piece for PvP and dmg pallies too. But they should be the secondary class. Think about it- if a piece of cloth falls that has tons of int, stam, and spirit, and increases to healing, who should get it first- the healing pally or the priest? After all, both can wear it, and both can make good use of it. You'd be hard-pressed to find anyone that would say the pally deserves it just as much as the priest.

Bottom line- I agree with those that said this is a warrior item first- it really is. Pallies should be able to take this after all their DPS warriors have it.

Комментарий от Thottbot

Any guild that has made it this far into high end raiding content will have a ML who distibutes loot with one sole thought in his head - MAXIMIZE the effectiveness of the raid as a whole.

What do paladins do in the raid? The perform a very important job of
1. Buffing
2. Healing (flash heals are great, LOH saves raids)
3. De-cursing
4. Occasional offtanking
5. Battle Rezzing
6. Bubble body pulls (like garr)
7. Bubble-saving poor cloth buddies
8. Wipe prevention

I could have missed something out, but i guess these are the main points.

None of these jobs require a pallie to have +str or +agi.

Paladins do not do melee DPS in 99% of fights,
as there are classes much better suitable for that role (Rogues, DD wars)

Also many of paladins that go to BWL, are likely to have their Lawbringer/Judgement helm by then, that is MUCH more suitable to their role in the raid.

Arms/Fury on the other hand, cant perform any of the actions listed above, except for off tanking. They are the ones that will take full advantage of +str +agi. DD wars in our guild constantly make it to the top 3-10 (1st place on Vaelstraz, Execute+Essense of Red rocks ^^)

Therefore, I hope it is clear to all pallies out there, that DD warriors have the highest priority and will be the only class to be allowed to spend dkp on it (i emphasise DKP, not roll).

After ALL the Arms/Fury warriors in the raid have this helm, both defence wars and paladins
will have an equal claim for this helm, as it will not benefit the raid, but help both classes with farming/PVP.

I really hope this clears things up a little bit.

BTW, im a def specced war, mt2

Комментарий от Thottbot

Are you saing your guild would rather give it to a paladin, if he has more DKP than a dps-warrior?

Комментарий от Thottbot

By the time you get to this point, you should know wether this is an item you need or not.

I thank the heavens that the Paladin's and Warriors in my guild think together as a team. It's quite obvious that a Paladin could want this, but it's even more obvious it'd be better suited to a Warrior.

Our Warriors passed on Zin'rokh, Destroyer of Worlds in ZG the other day because they feel they are tanks. A Paladin got it. Did it matter wether a Warrior could have used it better? No. What mattered is that we had a mature guild who understands partnership and needs.

Our Paladin's would easily pass on this to a Warrior. But I know several of the Warrior's would rather not use DKP on this due to their incredible tanking nature would prefer something else. It's this kind of harmony you need to set in your guild in MC.

If you didn't, you'll never make it to Nef with happy players. Only drones.

Комментарий от Thottbot

I always find humor and disbelief at how much time ppl argue over whether an item is one class' item or anothers.

I don't run into much of a problem with class conflict. As a guild, we run the same instances numerous times a week. So even if an item only drops occassionally, there are still a lot of the same items to be distributed throughout the guild.

When I think about getting an item, I focus on more whether it will help me compared to other items (not compared to how much it will help me compared to someone else). If I decide an item can help me, I work to get it. If not, then I ignore it.

Many of the warriors in my guild have their 2 tier helm. So would they want this instead or in addition to that helm? (once again an "item" comparison, not a class comparison) If they like the Tier 2 better, then many will pass on this. Even if they have the DKP! If they decide they want this helm, fine, I can wait for the next one.

More importantly, would I want to use this helm instead of Judgment when PvPing or farming or 5-man instances? I'm a retribution pally obviously.

To me, its a tough choice. Sure you get over +1% crit and dodge, but you give up all intel in the head position. Hmmm. Unfortunately, there are no helms for pallies with intell and agility till Avenger. In other armor slots, there are some such choices. Again, a tough choice to decide to use DKP on.

Opinions on getting this in addition to Judgement?

Комментарий от Thottbot

NOOBS STOP FLAMING ON RET PALLIES AND DONT SAY THOSE -OF THE CRUSADER PIECES "WARR ITEM PALLIES DONT NEED AGI"

If thres a ret pally,he can roll,no ret pallies gratz to warrs END OF THE STORY

Комментарий от Allakhazam

bottomline: pallys that go PvP rolled the wrong class

Комментарий от Allakhazam

if any1 in my guild wants this back of lol its mine! i want 1 badly fury ftw

Комментарий от Allakhazam

if it were up to all of you pallys wouldnt roll on anything, hush up, if you can make good use of it ROLL and ive had those who have cried after I have rolled on something, they end up getting kicked out of their own guild.

Комментарий от Allakhazam

Hunter Armor

Комментарий от Allakhazam

just %^&*ing drop for me already

Комментарий от Allakhazam

Thats pretty Hot though....

Комментарий от Allakhazam

Yeah man...a pally that outdmg any class, show me pics man.

It's also real nice for a pal but you should find out what's better for your raid, a low dmg pal or a heal/buff bot.

If you want it get it but I hope you will be flamed ;D

Комментарий от Allakhazam

HAHA ye iam also so happy about iam horde warrior.. paladins always want warrior loot.

Комментарий от Allakhazam

put this with Drakes Talons Pauldrons, Zandalar Dictator's chest piece, some nice other gear and a good weapon, and you got the best pvp warrior possible :D ultimate warrior helm (Dreadnaught not released yet) and i will personally blacklist ANY pally i see with this. although, i'm horde so the only ones i see will be the ones im PWNING ^_^

Комментарий от Allakhazam

Only the noob paladins hoard AGI/STR. I cant imagine that someone would still keep hoading those when you're doing MC/BWL. Unbelievable.

Paladin primary stat is INT, secondary is STA.

Комментарий от Allakhazam

paladins rule i love paladins. My 60 paladin out rolled the other 5 warriors in our raid to get this! makes me happy i can heal. brambles, i like brambles. druids are cool. Shaman are tough too. Kitties are cute. Can they wear this helmet? I hope so. Death Kitty!

Комментарий от Allakhazam

"Hair should no longer stick through the Helm of Endless Rage."

Комментарий от Allakhazam

warriors stay the hell out of thise helm ok i want it , and no paladin with enough dps can outdps warrior in fight if he has reckoning :).

Комментарий от Allakhazam

It needs a "Use: Instantly generate 10 rage." on a max 1 min timer, trade off for a little less agility.

Комментарий от Allakhazam

Definitely a Hunter item.

Комментарий от Allakhazam

All i have to say is about the name...

Helm of Endless Rage:
Rage = Warriors
Mana = Paladins

Комментарий от Allakhazam

That helm is not bad, but the Crown of Destruction is much better stat wise for retribution-paladins.

Комментарий от Allakhazam

i'd let the pally take it if they want to waste their points on it

Комментарий от Allakhazam

Ah so just because the pally has a certain tree in there talents that tells them they can do damage, means they can bid on equipment such as this(or the chromatic boots, drake talons, etc..)Real nice. Well i for one will never get outdamaged by a pally and quite frankly if this helm goes into the hands of a pally first, theres something wrong with that guild. At least let the warriors take a shot at it, THEN let the pallys bid.

Комментарий от Allakhazam

This is one reason i like being hordeside there isnt the constant pally/warrior feud,... unless were pvp'n. Anyways this helm looks awesome hope to get it :D

Комментарий от Allakhazam

This is a great helm I've had it since July. I'm glad they finally fixed the graphic error with it.

Spinal Reaper also has a new glow after the patch, it's the Lifestealing glow. Shown in the picture.

Комментарий от Allakhazam

Fures, level 60 Warrior.

Every class has a "dps" tree.. ( or PvP, whateva you want to call it ) Even Paladins !
If a Pala wants to go dps / PvP every now and then, why not just let em? They did get that tree for a reason. Maybe the damage output isn't as great as a Rogue / Warrior, but in most cases, its not about how much damage you deal, its about if you have fun.
Also, some Pala's just get tired of healing / buffing all the time, and go do PvP every now and then. I hate to go to Meatwall mode all the time.. you could say, isn't that what you Warriors were made for? Simple answer... no, we also got another 2 tree's, wich are there for DPS / PvP. Exactly the same for a Pala. "Arent Pala's there to heal / buff the entire raid?", in most cases they are, but they also got another tree.. and want to try that one out too.
This Helm, can be equiped by both.. but there's one difference between a Warrior and a Pala. Pala's arent as gear dependant as Warriors, thats why Warriors should get prio on this and then Pala's can roll / bid DKP imo. Every Pala should know this and every Pala thats isn't a epic horny !@#$%, will pass on it for a Warrior. If they can think ofc...

Btw, I saw some Pala say he outdps's Arms geared Warriors rite? Few months ago, when I had rank 10 gear + Arcanite reaper, I went UBRS for fun.. this dps-Pala went with us, fully epic. At the end of the instance, he didn't even do half of my damage output. I dont mind them goin DPS, if your having fun, gogo !

PS, isn't this the wrong place to discuss what a Pala / Warrior can need? Talk about HoER here, not what class must get it first.

Комментарий от Allakhazam

;E I hope blizz change graphics. We warriors are sick of the same helm looks just like a lvl 25 helm but different colour. Green iron (same graphics but green), Helm of Wrath (same graphics but blue), Lionheart Helm (same graphics but yellow).

Комментарий от Allakhazam

lol

Комментарий от Allakhazam

why is this helm so good? i'm a warrior with the lionheart helm and i'm not sure its worth losing almost 1% crit and 2% hit just for str and stam, i'm 2h fury btw.

Комментарий от Allakhazam

seriously a pally would never get to roll on this cause its an end game instance, your guild would blacklist you if you rolled on this.

Комментарий от Allakhazam

Has everyone forgotten that Retribution Paladins could put this to good use?

Комментарий от Allakhazam

Agh.. I have trouble deciding between this and Crown of destruction. My guild has already downed Rag and vaelestraz and I'd like to see some calculations or some solid evidence of one outperforming the other... XD

Комментарий от Allakhazam

i'm just happy that i'm a horde warrior :D

Комментарий от Allakhazam

Hello everyone ... I got this one easily for my paladin 'cause no warrior or paladin wanted it. Since they are alla looking for T2 or T1 helm I looted it.

Absolutely useless in high level instances (except for the 29 stamina) it will be quite usefull in low level instances (Startholm, Scholo, UBRS) and in PVP BGs. Yesterday just after looting it I tried it in H-to-H combat with a level 60 knight-lieutenant warrior at the gates of IF ... I pwned him :-))

Комментарий от Allakhazam

I got only 1 thing to say...check my bagz (Paladin)

http://wow.allakhazam.com/profile.html?930967

Комментарий от Allakhazam

Basically I raid all the end game instances (small 20 man ones AQ20,ZG, then 40 man ones MC, BWL, AQ40 not quite into Naxx yet).But coming from a raiding guild that has BWL on farm this Helm has a very high drop rate, and should first be distributed to the warriors via DKP bidding of course. If a Paladin wants this helm they will have to wait until the DPS warriors at least are fully equipped. I may be horde but I know my class like the back of my hand, I also know the roles of a Paladin in a End game zone as I have a friend who I have seen in BWL/AQ40. He wouldn't dare bid on the Helm, as he knows paladins have more use than just to dps and he also knows that if the warrior wins the Helm this is going to boost the raids damage output a lot more than if a paladin won it.

Just making my thoughts known you may not agree with me.

But I also think this rule apply's for Drake talon pauldrons and Chromatic Boots aswell.

Комментарий от Allakhazam

this helm would be awesome for a crit build warrior...

Комментарий от Allakhazam

"Green iron (same graphics but green), Helm of Wrath (same graphics but blue), Lionheart Helm (same graphics but yellow)."

Dont forget the Raging Berserker Helmet :)

Комментарий от Allakhazam

This is a must have stuff for and end game warrior... and I got it! im so f***king happy! :P

Комментарий от Allakhazam

This helm looks like it kicks a$$!

Комментарий от Allakhazam

I just picked up this bad boy 2 nights ago, its a must have for fury warriors.

Комментарий от Allakhazam

Anyone have a shot of it?
Hopefully it doesn't look like every other damn helm in the game. Green Iron/Berserker/Lionheart.

Комментарий от Allakhazam

We got it tonight, here is a picture of our Undead Warrior Zponx wearing it (Damn he is ugly)

http://img368.imageshack.us/my.php?image=helm1al.jpg

Комментарий от Allakhazam

Just downed vale and got this one. It's a great helm but it seams like blizz relly didn't put much work into it. The graphics are boring old one like all the other helms, altough most of he other non set items in BWL have new graphics. And your hair also shows trough the helm, can't have this thing visible untill they fixa a new gfx, damn uggly.

Комментарий от Allakhazam

The blizzard forums are down now, but go to the paladin forums. Then look for the stickied post about reckoning. Go down the first post to the bottom and download the video from the link there.

Now go on your warrior and try to top that. Also, check out his gear and noticed that it's sub-par with the exception of one or two items.

Intellect may be a very important stat for paladins, but I'd like you to note how many helms are available to a paladin. Not counting blues, there are two helms with any intellect at all on them. One has a total of 8 strength, the other with zero. Which helms? Our class set helms.

In PvP, we enjoy hitting things just as much as warriors. With enough attack power and strength, we can hit things damn hard. Instead of that horrid +8 strength helm that blizzard (no kidding) called a joke, I'll be happy to roll (everyone who wants it rolls, and the winner has their DKP subtracted. It's a viable method) on Helm of Endless Rage, which will benefit me in PvP just as much as it will a warrior.

"go roll on int plate n00b"

Sure thing! Gauntlets of the shining light, legguards of the fallen crusader, zandalar freethinker's breastplate, zandalar freethinker's armguards, etc. There is plenty of offensive-built paladin plate out there. It just takes some searching to find. Helms, however, are a different story. There isn't a single offensive-build paladin helm in existance, which means you idiotic no-clue warriors are going to have to step down on this one.

Here's the deal:
Warriors get ALL the plate with defense on it, paladins get ALL the plate with intellect on it. Anything else is fair game.

"Alright, that seems fair. It is after all just a game, and you shouldn't have to set rules to prevent greed at all... but what about weapons?"

We both use weapons as our only way to deal damage, so they're all fair game. Paladins get intellect weapons, warriors get tanking weapons. It's a fair trade-off.

Edited, Sun Nov 13 07:19:48 2005

Комментарий от Allakhazam

I'll end this.
1: In end game you do not "Roll" you send dkp to the ML.
2: The ML does know what he is doing and will not let any class roll on this.
3: A warrior with this IS better then a pally with it no mater the spec. It will help the guild in PVP and PVE greater if the warrrior gets this.
4: 99 times out of 100 the pallys said that they want this have never seen BWL and never will. So it does not mater.
5: Critalidons need SOC to do DPS warriors are made for 2 things, damage and tanking. A warrior with a good weapong vs. a pally with a good weapon will always win in the dps metters.
6: If your guild lets pallys spend dkp on this for pvp, then they will never see the last boss in BWL dead because the warriors are swinging green weapons and the pallys have everything.
7:For pvp a warrior with this will win over a SOC pally because it flat out is just better. You can use, but that does not give you right to have it. IE. Rogues can use cloth chests. It is just not good for them tho.

GL getting to this boss all you critalidons. Have fun in strat and scholo.

Комментарий от Allakhazam

Aside from the greatly entertaining Warrior VS Pally debate does anyone have a pic of this thing?

Комментарий от Allakhazam

Zponx looks so funny ;>

Комментарий от Allakhazam

i like where blizzard is going with plate mail paladins need this thing.

Комментарий от Allakhazam

pallys should keep their filthy mitts off this. it is the best pvp warrior helm out there. on my old server 1 of the many rank 14 warriors (y r they always warrs?) uses this over his rank 13 helm. pallies if u r able to get this u r specced pve because even if pvp speced u suk at dps and if u r speced pve u need mana. if i see a pally with this i am going to hate the ninja. this comin from a 60 pally :P

Комментарий от Allakhazam

if ur duel wield then lionheart helm is still better then helm of endless rage due the hits :)

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