Does anyone know if there is there a hidden cooldown effect on the proc?

If not, I'd vouch for Relentless Earthstorm Diamond (https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/spell=39961) as superior for Rogue PvE DPS. +3% crit bonus damage alone gives 10 DPS to a dagger rogue, more than the 4.6 that the Hunter achieved (a rogue could probably get it higher, but not 10 dps + 12 agil).

Комментарий от 22086

http://img518.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wowscrnshot052907174816zy7.jpg

I tried two settings: autoattacking only without SnD and having a Tank so i could use Mutilate + finishers with SnD up the whole time. It always ended up with 0,7 PPM and no proc was closer than one minute to another one. I guess there's a hidden cooldown of 1 Minute on this gem. Sadly, this puts it below Relentless Earthstorm Diamond damagewise.

Little calculation with 0,7 PPM:

367 Whitedps * 1,3 (SnD) = 477,1
Assuming the Proc comes every 85 Seconds (0,7 PPM) it would mean 7% Uptime of Skyfire Swiftness.
7% of 477,1 DPS is affected by the buff which means:

477,1 * 0,07 * 1,23 + 477,1 * 0,93 = 41,1 + 443,7 = 484,8 DPS total
Net Increase of 7,7 DPS (which is far better than any of the "old" metagems)

Let's compare this to Relentless Earthstorm Diamond (12 Agi + 3% Critdamage) - assuming it applys to Whitehits too, since i don't know about that right now.

Critchance of 33% with the 12 Agi applied. Every 3rd hit is a crit. Assuming 900 total DPS:
450 DPS from Crits (33%*2 = 66%) (bit more with Lethality, leaving that out of the equotation though)
450 DPS * 1,03 = 463,5 DPS. Net Increase of 13,5 DPS + ~ 0,3% Crit + 12 AP.

As you can see the Relentless Earthstorm Diamond is superior to the thundering skyfire diamond - assuming there really is a hidden cooldown of 1 Minute. Hopefully someone else can do some research and prove me wrong!

I *hope* the calculation is correct - if you see any errors please let me know.

Greetings

Комментарий от 56772

Can someone confirm that this stacks with mongoose?

Thank you

Комментарий от Eclair

This evening i tried it, 0.9PPM for 2500 hit, about 30min of fight. I think the Relentless Earthstorm Diamond, with simple maths we can figure that buffed in raid with like 35-40% crit, this will up your damage by 0,03x35=1,2% or so. And the 12 agi is great too.

So definitly Relentless Earthstorm Diamond > Swiftness Skyfire Diamond.

Комментарий от 58652

So does anyone agree with the Relentless Earthstorm Diamond is better than the Thundering Skyfire Diamond for a hunter? people I am talking to are about to get it instead of Relentless. I have the Relentless Earthstorm Diamond atm.

Комментарий от 46362

Haste rating only increases WHITE dps. It has no effect on your instant attacks or special shots for hunters.

The +3% crit damage from Relentless Earthstorm Diamond will affect crits from White hits and Yellow hits alike.

Комментарий от 62536

Theoretically, this gem would scale really well with higher end gear since you hit much harder. But similarly the Relentless gem also scales with the 3% extra crit damage. Do any of you think it's possible that the Thundering gem would scale better at the top tiers than the relentless gem?

Комментарий от vocel

This gem should be better for fury wars than anything else, since fury wars don't benefit as much as rogues do from the +12 agil on RED as rogues do and the haste inc works better for fury wars since +haste increases our rage generation in an even more effective way than it helps combat rogues /w combat potency and their energy generation..

...also more haste = faster HSs / cleaves, where as rogues have no such attacks that work with the same emchanic

thats my opinion, though i havent tested it

Комментарий от 69654

This gem, just like just about everything in WoW, is only as good as you stack it. The lower proc rate means that if it's the only piece of haste gear you have, it's not going to be that fantastic.

However, stacking this with alot of other +haste gear on any DW class, can be simply disgusting. There are several main hands with +haste procs (hammersmithing, heroic SH) off hands with +haste procs, trinkets with use +haste, innate +haste on cloaks and BT gear if your lucky enough, and all 3 DW classes (not counting hunters) have talents to give them innate +haste procs.

Stacking +haste means worse case scenario, you have several haste procs hit spread out over a fight. Best case scenario, they all proc on top of each other, and whatever your fighting becomes a bloody mess. But without stacking it, any piece on it's own is slightly mediocre.

Комментарий от Faradize

i use this as bm hunter for 3 days now, and it proc very rarely, ill change it for another meta...just dont worth it :(

Комментарий от Frogger101

As a retribution dps paladin in raids this thing is king, haste benefits us the most arguably for raid dps, mind you our threat is off the walls at this point in time. because most of our dps (more then 50%) is based off our white hits and procs off those white hits, (seal of command being a PPM) your haste will greatly benefit you as it also increases your PPM of SoComm. One good thing to not that most paladins use a 3.8 speed weapon for pve dps, increasing your speed to 3.71 will give you 4 attacks while vengeance is up instead of 3 giving you an additional chance to keep it up, which in turn, realy does help your dps.

i would choose this over relentless meta gem for retribution paladins for sure.
just remember you only need enough crit to keep vengeance up, all your other item value points should be leaned towards AP and Haste after that. 25% crit is a good place to sit.

i recommend https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=32665 as your dps cloak, the haste is worth ATLEAST 90 AP when your AP is 2000+ which, is easily surpassed in a raiding environment, which is better then any cloak till at least after SSC.

obviously the true power in haste is it scales the static AP. Sorry if i got off topic there, but i hope that atleast helps the Paladin community.

-Slayton

Комментарий от Wakako

Anyone else think this is best meta gem so far?

Комментарий от 81596

I am a rogue. And just got this, the proc rate is quite awsome, and for those who say it has a hidden cooldown.
This might be true, but i had it proc 2 times within 20 sec or something.
And that was with SND, mongoose proc only.

Bet if you use dragonspinethrophy it would proc alot more. The faster hit the more hits
the more chance for it to proc.
But definely worth getting.

Комментарий от Senka

Considering this gem's proc gives +240 haste rating, and not +% haste, would this still be better than Relentless Earthstorm Diamond (+12 agi, +3% crit damage bonus) when 2.2 comes with its haste rating nerf?

Комментарий от 45047

I somewhere read that the duration of this buff has been increased with 2.2, to match with the haste-nerf... is there any truth in this rumor?

Комментарий от 36045

As of 2.2 15.76 haste rating is equal to 1% faster attack. This formula is from wowwiki and shows how to calculate increases in haste with different sources. Haste now multiplies with other sources. Ex 120% x 130% = 156%

The formula for determining hasted weapon speed is:

Hasted Speed = Weapon Speed / ( (1+(Haste 1 %/100)) * (1+Haste 2 %/100)) * (1+(((Haste Rating 1 + Haste Rating 2 + ... )/100)/10.52)))

Example: 2.6 / ( (1+(10%/100)) *(1+(30%/100)) * (1+20%/100)) * (1+(((105.2)/100)/10.52)))
2.6 / ((1.1*1.3*1.2) * 1.1) = 2.6 / 1,8876 = 1,377 sec, attack speed.

For the full article go to the link below:
http://www.wowwiki.com/Haste

Комментарий от 11168

This gem procs for me for about 1-2% but when i get the buff, it only lasts for 4 seconds on my screen..

I checked my character pane to see if my attack speed just incase there might be an error with my UI and I confirmed that the buff only lasts 4 seconds for me... is there something wrong?

Комментарий от 94260

I just socketed TFD into my meta gem socket... thing is ... Yes i got the haste buff and all ... but it isnt 10 seconds yet?

When will Blizzard buff this diamond? from 6 secs to 10 secs is a major buff for this diamond on Combat rogues. it acts like a mini dragonspine trophy and further enchances it if you got one

Комментарий от 50975

Can anyone confirm if this procs off of ranged attacks? I could do some serious DPS being BM with 2.8 speed steelhawk crossbow + abacus of violent odds + rapid fire + dragonspine trophy, makes me giddy.

Комментарий от weyland

This item has a hidden cooldown of 40 seconds.

Комментарий от Eragor

People and this meta socket stake with enchanting moongos?

Комментарий от marikris

For druids, Relentless Earthstorm still beats this because OOC is a PPM proc and doesn't benefit from haste.

The only attacks that benefit from haste are white attacks and 2pc T4 proc.

Комментарий от 42800

I think this gem might be better for haste-geared (bs mace, dragonspine trophy etc similiar proccable haste) than Relentless Earthstorm Diamond, since more haste => more hits => more chances to proc haste and energy.
Assuming that this gem has a hidden cooldown of 40seconds as weyland suggested, I might be totally wrong.

Комментарий от 5612

Does anyone know if this can proc off of windfury attacks?

Комментарий от Allakhazam

From the testing we've done, the proc rate appears to be the usual 5%. It gives 240 Haste Rating for 5secs.

Rumblebelly, Jubei'thos.

Комментарий от Allakhazam

Whats the proc chance and how much is the haste rating (speed increase)?

Комментарий от Allakhazam

Good DPS meta, but the relentless earthstorm has the edge for most physical classes.

Комментарий от Allakhazam

how often does this proc. like hits to proc ratio

Комментарий от Allakhazam

does anyone know if this procs for druids in cat form?

Комментарий от Allakhazam

Clearing Gruul's Lair this week and reviewing WWS, I had equal procs as I had with Hourglass of the Unraveller.

It also procs from ranged attacks.

Edited, Jun 4th 2007 8:05pm by DrHolmes

Комментарий от Allakhazam

Can be crafted by Gaf on Acnachronos, alliance side.

Комментарий от Thottbot

http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/1421/skyfireswiftnessep7.jpg
Thats the buff, lasts 6 seconds I believe

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/4262/procrateew1.jpg
About a 1% proc rate. When this thing procs, I see a lot of +15 energy and the white damage is great with SnD up as well :)

Комментарий от Thottbot

10.52 Haste Rating grants 1% haste

So, 240 Haste Rating would grant 22.8% haste.

In catform a druid would get 6 white-damage attacks in 6 seconds. With this buff we would get 6*1.228 = 7.368 attacks in 6 seconds.

With a procrate of 1 per minute, that's about one and a third extra 1.0 speed white-damage attacks per minute. Is that correct?

That does sound pretty good compared to other melee metagems. An extra white attack also means extra clearcasting procs, extra procs from the T4 2-set bonus, extra chance-on-crit procs from the Hourglass of Unraveller, etc.

Makes me wonder about more non-consumable ways that I could improve haste, or get other chance-on-hit procs. Any suggestions?

(Reminder: procs on hit DO work for druids in cat/bear form for all kinds of equipment *except* weapons and weapon enchants.)

Комментарий от Thottbot

Hunters:

Does this proc off of shots like arcance, multi, and steady shot? It doesn't proc very often at all for me, except when I dual wield. You would think with a constant steady-auto or DPS arcane/multi weaving rotation it would proc more...

Anyone else have a better experience than me?

Комментарий от Thottbot

He is saying that buffs have diminishing returns on something that is percentage based. If you have a 3.5s speed bow and you get a 20% haste bonus that makes your weapon speed 2.8. Then if you gain another 5% haste bonus you are gaining 5% of the base 2.8s speed weapon, NOT 3.5. He said it a wacky way that makes it sound wrong cuz you don't really get dimininshing returns on the haste procs. It just looks less because you have a faster attack speed.

To all those who thought this gem was uber for a druid you are better off getting relentless earthstorm diamond. You get 1.7ish extra attacks a minute when this procs. That nets you maybe 200-300 damage since the 1.7 attacks isn't likly to crit. The relentless gem giving you 3% crit damage will net you way more damage in the end. Your white hits at 200 damage a swing may only give you 90 damage with 1 crit every 4 seconds, 120 with 1 crit every 3 seconds, but your specials critting will more than make up the 150 damage difference. A crit shred will net you 30 bonus damage every shred at 1k damage a shred, no crit, and you can get off enough shreds in 1 minute to do more damage than this meta gem can do.

Druids should go for relentless earthstorm diamond for dpsing. If you mangle spam your just bad anyway and should reroll a sword/mace rogue.

Комментарий от Thottbot

Is this or a relentless earthstorm diamond better for a combat fist rogue. I have 41 crit buffed in raids. Im leaning towards relentless with the 12agi & 3% crit damage. Anyone have a reason why this would be better for me?

Комментарий от Thottbot

Considering the 1 PPM - What does that mean for DPS increase:

There are verfy few fights in BC raid-instances that allow you to stand staticaly behind the boss and go all in. That means that the 1 PPM is even better. In many fights you will be spending 50-60% of your time damaging the boss -> 30-36 Seconds/Minute hence you will have overall whitedamage increase of about 3% (ca. 36/6*0.2). As a combat rogue you will also have an increased chance for combat potency to proc: about 24% overall during the procs duration (not taking SnD, Dragonspine Trophy, Mongoose etc. into account).

Thats a very short summary of the calculations I made when comparing the Relentless Earthstorm Diamond to this one.

According to my calculations this thing here should give you an overall dps increase between 2 and 2,2% in comparison to the 12 agi + 3% critdamage gem and thats quite a lot. (based on hitrating > 250 and ~25% crit)

Комментарий от Thottbot

Maybe a a stupid question but I just have to have it awnserd, the proc is normalized right? Ie it will proc more often with a 3.4 speed two hand axe then with a 1.3 speed dagger.

Комментарий от Thottbot

With 300 white dmg dps, this gives a 6.9 dps increase. For rogues duelwielding 2 equally good weapons and a 1.5 speed offhand, this gives an extra 3.8 dps from the potency procs.

Every 2.6 mins this procs 2.18 times. I wont get in to warriors and gaining more rage from the extra hits since im not a warrior.

Комментарий от Thottbot

Just want to report it does work on hunters ranged shots.

Комментарий от Thottbot

just wondering, with dual wield does it count each weapon separately as 1 ppm, or is the entire dw 1 ppm?

Комментарий от Thottbot

Do all of the procs for increased attack speed stack? Or does 1 proc cancel out another 1 ?

For example, Fury warrior with Enrage/Flurry, Mongoose enchant on weapon, and Thundering Skyfire Diamond ... is it possible for all of these to stack together?

If so i wonder what the combined effect would be like.

Комментарий от Thottbot

Haste proccs do stack, just like Ap proccs.

Комментарий от Thottbot

+12 agil and 3% increased crit damage is better if you have over 30% crit, at least on my BM hunter. Ran kara twice to test this. First removing a little crit gear so i went down to 25, came in first as always, was using thundering skyfire. Second time put on my gear to get over 30% crit, first again, but had about 100 something k more damage output. All depends on your crit %...if its low, get this to make up for your low dps, if its high, get 12 agil and 3% increased crit to increase the high dps you already have.

*edited for you who prefer spelling over content

Комментарий от Thottbot

For rogues I would agree with above post on swords and would add Maces to that. Swords and Maces rely on the white damage which doesn't help the 3% bonus on crit damage for that meta as much as other builds. So with rogues I would say
Maces = Thundering skyfire
Swords = Thundering skyfire
Daggers = Relentless Earthstorm
Fists = Relentless Earthstorm

I also agree with the high crit point of view. If you happen to have swords with over 30% then its a tougher decision. Personally I am a big fan of haste. Apparently I am correct in this assumption because Black Temple is filled with it. Obviously its a good thing. But I have been convinced since my 2piece assassination + Blackout Trunch + Abacus + Blade Fury + SND. Those along with my hourglass and Mongoose procs its plain sick. If you are a Hammersmith unlike me you are even more happy. Haste procs on that MH too.

Комментарий от Thottbot

Since this is a PPM, wouldn't it actually benefit from other hastes? I mean PPM mean the game goes in an noticed the speed of the weapon(s) and calculates the percentage needed to fit the PPM. Obviously slower weapon would get a higher percentage, and that is why slower weapons benefit more from PPMs, since their instant special attacks also have the same percentage to gain the proc. Meanwhile faster weapons obviously have less chance to proc per hit so their instant attacks have less chance to proc.

At the same time PPMs don't calculate hasted weapons. They continue to assume the weapon is of a certain speed (the base value). So a rogue in SnD, Blade Flurry, procs sword spec ect would gain huge chances to this, and a GM hunter with a permanent 20% speedbonus would also benefit greatly... or rather should unless this gem's proc is set in stone and can't be affected by anything, unlike enchants. If it is open to being affected, it would potentially affect itself somewhat. Now that is a nice thing, but I'm sure that has been calculated into the percentages added to the weapons.

Arrrhhh, much to contemplate.

Комментарий от Thottbot

I hope someone in my guild can make this, because when we raid I would turn into a gatling gun...

Berserking
Rapid Fire
Bloodlust
Abacus of Violent Odds
Hourglass of the Unraveller proc
Meta Gem proc
Haste Potion

That's just dirty.

Novus Chalybs (Terokkar) - 4/6 SSC, 3/4 TK.

Комментарий от Thottbot

For a Mutilate Rogue - This, Relentless Earthstorm, or Brutal Earthstorm?
I got Emerald Ripper and Merciless Shiv

Комментарий от Thottbot

All I know is before they nerfed haste, I was using this gem in my Helm of Assassination with two pieces of the set, I was using Revenger in my main hand and Latro's Shifting Sword in my offhand, with slice and dice active, the haste bonus from the armor and the haste from this gem and if everything proc'ed in the right order, I could get my attack speed down to .42 main hand .38 offhand, I was insanely fast, of course proc's like that happened MAYBE twice a day, and with sword spec I would of course see lots of extra swings and energy gens, rough dps non critical was about 600 when this happened, Of course Blizzard hates anyone who plans stuff like this so they nerfed haste, now I can only get it down to about .9 .9 on both hands and have since switched weapons because my incentive is gone, lol

Комментарий от Thottbot

Would this be good for a ret paladin?

Комментарий от Thottbot

Just got this on my combat swords rogue. according to my damage meter the majority of my damage is from auto attacks, so to get this gem which increases my attack speed once per minute will mean better dps for dungeons and raids. This is an excellent gem!

Комментарий от Thottbot

This stacked with the Dragonspine Trophy I Just Got.
Major Difference In my damage output during raids.

Комментарий от Thottbot

any fury war with impressions about this?slow wpn s high crit rate ones...

Комментарий от classicdave

This procs a 6 second buff called Skyfire Swiftness, spell ID 39959

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