I find this trinket to be very very subpar compared to what other professions get

Speaking as enhancement shaman, but i think this goes for most melee dps classes.

First of all the mana/health potion factor is nearly neglectable, most of the time you use Haste Potions which boost your dps, so this aspect of the trinket is only limited to very specific encounters, and pvp most likely (i could see a good use for pvp with this)

The 108 Attackpower is very weak, if you compare it vs one of the easier to get trinkets Bloodlust Brooch ( https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=29383 ), which has an effective 115 AP ...

These trinkets could defenately use a buff, all the other proffessions got items that are above BT quality. These trinkets i would place on par with ZA quality at best

Комментарий от Dethklok

I'm considering this upgrade as a raiding retri paladin. Mana is always an issue, so the +40% extra will come in nicely.. Now I think about it, I'm guessing the 108ap outrolls the +15stat on the original piece by miles.. Although I'd prefer the crit.

Комментарий от 141000

The raw materials to create this item are:

70 Mote of Earth ( https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=22573 )
70 Mote of Water ( https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=22578 )
70 Mote of Fire ( https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=22574 )
70 Mote of Air ( https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=22572 )
60 Mote of Shadow ( https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=22577 )
50 Mote of Mana ( https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=22576 )
4 Iron Ore ( https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=2772 )
4 Purple Lotus ( https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=8831 )
4 Firebloom ( https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=4625 )
3 Deep Peridot ( https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=23079 )
3 Shadow Draenite ( https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=23107 )
3 Golden Draenite ( https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=23112 )
3 Blood Garnet ( https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=23077 )
3 Flame Spessarite ( https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=21929 )
3 Azure Moonstone ( https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=23117 )
2 Fel Lotus ( https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=22794 )
2 Nether Vortex ( https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=30183 )
1 Black Vitriol ( https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=9262 )

Комментарий от zydar

this is a great trinket for retardins and hunters. I am using one on my pally with tsunami talisman and it is amazing. no mana issues at all so i can keep my dps pretty high.

Комментарий от 3clipse

I have to say, this is an incredible trinket for raiding hunters. The 108 AP is amazing, only beaten by Bloodlust by 7 effective AP (but let's be honest, who *literally* has their trinket popped whenever it's off cooldown?), and the 40% to potions is just...wow. I sit at around 6400 mana/22 mp5 prebuffs, around 7600 mana and 90 mp5 after full raid buffs. However, using this and fel mana potions, I was actually able to keep myself constantly full of mana - I would get down to around 4000 mana, drink one, and the last tick would get me to about 7500 mana.

For hunters like me who have gear more oriented towards damage stats (i.e., leather items and less int-based mail), this is one of the best raiding trinkets out there. 108 AP is an amazing passive bonus too.

Комментарий от 11180

What I want to know is if this item is worth taking over the regular alchemists stone for a Retribution Paladin. Let's compare:

Alchemist's Stone (https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=13503):

30 Attack Power (33 with Blessing of Kings)
0.6% Chance to crit (0.66% with Blessing of Kings)
150 Health (165 with Blessing of Kings)
225 Mana (~247 with Blessing of Kings)

Vs.

Assassin's Alcemist Stone:

108 Attack Power

Which would be better for a Ret Paladin? 75 Attack Power or 0.66% crit, 165 Health, and 247 mana?

I would assume the Attack Power is better, but could I get some verification please?

Let me look at it from a different perspective; from Blizzard's gem system.

16 Agility, Stamina, and Intellect vs. 75 AP.

From gems we can see that AP is worth 1/2 of Intellect and Agility (for example https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=32197 vs. https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=32194, ratio of 2:1)

So we can say, hypothetically, 16 Agility = 32 AP and 16 Intellect = 32 AP. As for stamina:

https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=32200 vs. https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=32197

(as you can see I chose the gems with iLVL of 100 in all examples, as to keep things as fair as possible)

There is .75 Stamina per AP. So we can say, again hypothetically, 15 Stamina = 26.25 AP (or just 26).

32+32+26 = 90. 90 > 75

I know I severely, severely dumbed things down, and I broke the laws of physics with these comparisons, but for a class that uses at least 4 of the 5 stats on the Alchemist's Stone (Like a Ret Paladin!), it is a higher budgeted item than this Assassin's Alchemist Stone (when ONLY looking at Blizzard's definition of budgeting in gems, which could mean nothing in the long run but w/e).

Комментарий от BoddAH

To get a better view about how « good » this item actually is, you can convert the 40% mana increase from drinking potions into mp5.

A Super Mana Potion gives you 2400 mana on average, this Alchemist Stone will give you around 960 extra mana every time you use a Super Mana Potion (2400 + 40% = 3360 mana on average Super Mana Potion use)
In very long/long boss fights (in short ones you won’t get oom anyway), if you drink a potion whenever the cooldown (2 minutes) is up, you would get:

960 / 120 = 8 mana per second from this trinket or 40mp5

All in all, with optimal use, this trinket can be seen as:

Assassin's Alchemist Stone
Binds when picked up
Unique
Trinket
Requires Alchemy (350)

Equip: Increases attack power by 108.
Equip: Restores 40 mana per 5 sec.

Комментарий от 73706

108 Ap makes this ~~one of~~ the top pure AP trinkets in the game. No need to hope for a proc, no need to worry about a dearth of crits ruining your trinket uptime (hourglass) or getting too caught up in the fight to hit your on use trinket (name one) etc etc. I know on my priest, personally, I've really grown to love not having to worry about on use trinkets. Just melt faces and the trinkets take care of themselves, so this one should be great for my enhancement shaman.

Plus, this just goes amazingly well with the Mad Alchemist Potion, especially for melee classes that seem to always have to deal with random boss X's Aoe, cleave, random charge, etc etc. Not to mention that on my shaman, I've only ever procced useful elixir buffs, notably major agility. Even procced an Elixir of Ironskin during an AV and was pleasantly surprised.

Mats to make the trinket are rather reasonable and easy to obtain for any alchemist, especially one with a helpful guild.

Комментарий от Allakhazam

The Charm of Alacrity increases the Dodge Rating by 192 for 10 seconds with a 90 second cool down. It does nothing for attack or ranged attack.
The Philosopher's Stone increases AGI, STR, INT, SPR, and STM by 5, not decreases as stated above. Good thing is that with the last patch, the cool down for it is now only 20 hours.

Комментарий от Thottbot

Woooow something nice for you alchamists.

Комментарий от Thottbot

So where do you get the recipe?

Комментарий от Thottbot

thats so nice

Комментарий от Thottbot

Does it work with plane old alchemist stone as a trinket set?

Комментарий от Thottbot

For those curious, you can make and equip both the Alchemist's Stone and other Sun faction stones like the Assassin's Alchemist Stone. Mat expensive, but I've done it.

Комментарий от Thottbot

This is good for a shaman(mental Quickness)

Комментарий от Thottbot

this is a nice little trinket for melee dps in raids. The +104ap is nice, but the 40% healing/mana pot increase is sweet to go along.

I believe all melle raid dpsers out their know what its like to have spam heals on the tank and you gotta blow those pots just to be hit again for more than that pot could even heal u for. So here is a 40% AND SOME SWEET AP.

Cant wait to do this on my furt warrior. Ill bump over 2k ap w/o buffs XD

Комментарий от Thottbot

Hunter analysis of this stone:

The way I see it, in long boss fights, I typically need to roll with Aspect of the Viper so that I have the mana to maintain my dps for the entire fight. I can use pots, of course, but it all comes down to a comparison of aspects, trinkets, and pots.

Aspect of the Hawk: +155 Attack Power

Aspect of the Viper: mana return up to 55% of Intellect / 5 sec

Assassin's Alchemist Stone: +108 Attack Power and +40% effect from mana and health pots

Super Mana potion:
1800-3000 mana --> +40% --> 2520-4200 mana

Super Rejuvenation / Mad Alchemist potions:
1650-2750 health and mana --> +40% --> 2310-3850 mana

Fel Mana Potion:
3200 mana / 24 sec --> +40% --> 4480 mana / 24 sec

Potions can be used every 2 minutes (120 sec), so spreading that mana out over two minutes gives the following MP5:

Super Mana potion: 105-175 mp5
Super Rejuv / Mad Al: 96-160 mp5
Fel Mana potion: 186 mp5

I use Bloodlust Brooch and the current version of the alchemist stone before this one, so I am just going to give the AP increase and mp5 comparison by using it and not using it, as well as using the average return of potions:

Aspect of the Viper:
My intellect in PVE gear is around 310. This gives 170 mp5 using 55% of intellect. It likely won't be that high all of the time, but that's the maximum.

Aspect of the Hawk + Al Stone:

+ 155 Attack Power - Aspect of the Hawk
+ 108 Attack Power - Assassin's Stone
------------------------------------------
= +263 Attack Power

Using Fel Mana potion = 185 mp5

Basically, you can get 263 more attack power using this trinket with Fel Mana potions and still maintain enough mana for the long fight as if you had the Aspect of the Viper on. Even with regular Super Mana pots, you'll still maintain around 140 mp5...and you can switch to Aspect of the Viper to finish off a boss.

If you can find a trinket that does more than 263 effective Attack Power, drop the stone, but otherwise, it looks like a very good hunter choice for long fights. From what I can tell, the extra 263AP is about an extra 18.8dps, which equals about 2.5% crit based on my current gear.

Skuully - Hunter
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Deathwing&n;=skuully

Комментарий от Thottbot

not sure if i'm the only one to see this as a rip off, but where does the 15 to all stats go? considering all the extra mats i have to spend on this, to "upgrade" it, i'd actually like to see an upgrade, and not a change. 108 AP would have been nice if it had been a whole new stone, with about the same mats as the alchemist's stone.

I don't know how's the economy on your realms, but on draenor, a nether vortex is about 250 gold. or 15 badges. Primal shadows around 25g each. Meta gems 150g, primal might over 100g.

so the alchemist stone takes about 800g in mats. Is it really worth paying 650g to replace 15 to all stats with 108ap? 15 to all stats = 800 gold, but 108 ap ends up costing 1400g+?

To make it worth it, they should take out the alchemist stone from the materials required, cuz stats wise, they are "equals" and not quite an "upgrade"

Комментарий от Thottbot

Requires level 350 alchemy.

But you need to be 375 to make it and it's BoP.

You would have to lvl to 375, make the trinket, then drop alchemy and relevel to 350 to use this trinket at 350.

Комментарий от Thottbot

Good trinket, another rep grind.

Комментарий от Thottbot

After a few raids using the new stone and then a few using Bloodlust I am still not sure which provides more DPS over the course of the raids. The math above seems correct. It is less to concentrate on when using the stone even though I have a macro to trigger Bloodlust every time I pop SnD, BF or AD which keeps it up at a maxium.

Комментарий от Thottbot

Hi, i looked at all the comments above, but i asked myself 1 thing... as a BM hunter, i see everybody talking about this alch trinket versus bloodlust broch. how about using them both? Or are other trinkets combinations better?

Комментарий от Thottbot

Yea i agree with all of you that the effect wont stack but....
You can't have 2 alchemist's stone on you. Read what the item description says: UNIQUE

...Unless an upgraded Alchemist's Stone can be worn with a normal one or another upgraded Alchemist's stone

Комментарий от Thottbot

do you guys think its really worth a rogue taking up alchemy to end up with this stone at the end? rather than something like enchanting... cos personally i prefer alch and can eventually just buy enchants.
right? any helpful opinions would be much appreciated.

Комментарий от Thottbot

I would go for enchanting, and take the +6 all stats on your rings and then just go for the badge reward: Bloodlust broach. Imo this alchemy trinket isn't worth it.

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