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To clear any confusion about Hemorrhage:

No, the +dmg does not stack, however Hemorrhage requires less energy to use than even Sinister Strike, making it a perfect ability to use in a stun-lock build.

A Hemorrhage stunlock rogue has a good chance of not being attacked whatsoever when dueling a Warrior, as long as it get's the jump.

Комментарий от 8349

I'm sticking my neck out on the line here by adding this comment.
But I'm going to have to put forth that hemorrhage (hemo) is the
most energy efficient and reliable generation of combo points
currently in the game. I'm going to have to support this ides of course.

Mutilate in my eyes even with a seal fate build is actually a -waste- of combo points, you can only build up 5 at a time, mutilate is not an acceptable opener (you will do more damage with an ambush). Ambush at level 60 will at most provide you with 2 combo points. Without the nightslayer bonus or Renataki's Charm of Trickery (https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=19954)
you are unable to mutilate until your energy ticks (with can be fast depending on where you are in your energy cycle) you may then mutilate to bring your energy to zero (now you must wait 2 ticks to kidney shot or eviscerate 3 ticks to gouge or mutilate again.
If you chose to mutilate again you are generating 1 combo point for the cost of 60 energy and it is thrown away. If you kidney shot your kidney shot will be a second shorter than it could have been.

While using hemo for energy generation combo points are never wasted and the action costs 35 energy with the improved cheap shot talent (normally included in a hemo build) Combo point generation may follow thusly:(points/energyremaining) Cheapshot (2/60) -> Hemo (3/25) -> Tick -> (3/55) -> Hemo (4/20) -> tick x2 (4/60) -> gouge (5/15) -> tickx2(5/55) -> finisher.
If timed with energy cycle this can occur before stuns break thus creating, stunlock. This is only a portion of a full stunlock, but I'd rather not give away all my techniques in one sitting.

Please note I didn't calculate in the fact that cheapshot will normally add 3 combo points with talents making the stunlock much easier to pull off without watching energy cycles.

Well that's all for now. I wanted to put in a good word for hemorrhage as it's very rarely used. It's also not bad for DPS not considering combo point generation as it may be used with swords etc. The damage is slightly less than sinister strike however I believe it's based on a % there's a formula above but I don't really know where it came from :o (blizzard hasn't ever added to the tooltip though) which means single swing may eventually be able to beat out sinister strike however over time the 5 less energy cost will eventually generate enough combo points and hemorrhage will pass sinisterstrike spam in damage because of the cost alone however this is more long term.

Комментарий от Thottbot

Can the effect from this be resisted, or fail to work on raid bosses?

Комментарий от Thottbot

1. I'm fairly certain it works on most bosses
2. The damage is basically equal to your normal weapon damage, but it's NOT affected by the instant attack ap bonus normalization in the 1.8 patch, so that means it benefits strongly from a slow weapon.

Комментарий от Thottbot

Not only does it increase the overall damage done by you, but of ANY melee striking the mob(up to 30 charges) by 7. That is a LOT of damage being added by one rogue. Don't knock it, it is quite impressive. And since many rogues travel far enough down Sublety to grab IMP SAP, a few more points will net you this. I swear by Hemo and will probably be using it in all PvP/PvE encounters.

Комментарий от Thottbot

its a good skill to use in a long fight, but not worth it when its over in 10 hits or less, in a short fight use sinister strike instead

Комментарий от Thottbot

Watch some hemo rogue videos. Sinister Strike is a waste of energy. Hemo takes 10 less energy, but only does a little less damage.

Комментарий от Thottbot

Hemo > SS
With Initiative+imp CS you can open a fight like so

Cheapshot->Hemo->Hemo (full 5 combo points at this point)....either evis/kidney from here before the CS stun is worn off :)

plus 1.8 normalization did not affect Hemo, slower weapon = better.I did not belive hemo was better at first till I tried it, im not switching specs for a LONG time.Dont knock it till you try it.Hemo is very cheap too energy wise.....stunlocks rule!

Комментарий от Thottbot

It's value is dependant on the amount of damage you gain vs SS.

The closest matchup between the two is 7 SS's vs 9 Hemo (315E, 9s).

Over the 7 SS's, you gain a bonus damage of 476.

On average over the course of 9s, you'll gain rougly 12 normal attacks (assuming 2 * 1.50 speed daggers) From the Hemo bonus damage you gain a bonus damage of 140 (no bonus on first attack; thus 20 x 7).

So you get for SS: +476 damage.
For Hemo you get: +2 Main Hand strikes, +140 damage.

Thus, the crossover point is:
2 Main Hand strikes -- 336 damage.
If your MH attacks are greater, Hemo is better.
If they are less, SS is better.

This of course does not take into account many other factors, most importantly your weapon speed, the total time involved, and the fact that Hemo requires a talent point deep in a tree. The slower your weapon, the less attacks you make that use the Hemo bonus, but then the higher your MH strikes are. But the basic math is solid.

Комментарий от Thottbot

Let's do some simple calculation, shall we?

Assumption 1: Each time you cast, the 30 charges will definitely consumed causing 3 damages each member strikes the boss (Assuming the boss has 50% physical damage reduction)which will be 3X30=90 damage.

Assumption 2: You don't under effect of fear, charm, and etc that will temporary stops you from casting Hemorrhage and you're able to cast it every 5 seconds.

Assumption 3: You guys take 15 minutes or 900 seconds to take it down.

So, theorically the total damage caused by Hemorrhage will be: (900/5)X90 damage= 16200 damage! (And the value is purposely underestimated as act of conservatism)Just because it neither let you deal SIGNIFICANT direct damage nor doesn't allow you to achieve top 5 damage output doesn't mean it is a suck ability.

Комментарий от Thottbot

Keep in mind that this ability causes little aggro on the user, since it does very little damage by itself; rather, since it causes OTHERS to do more damage, less aggro for you :D

Комментарий от Thottbot

Most stun-lock and hemo rogues wont be #1 on the dps charts but they can make a great contribution to the raid thx to all the extra dmg from hemo. Imp sap is another advantage most hemo rogues have that can be (in limited cases) helpful to raids.

Комментарий от Thottbot

Currently specced hemo, after trying seal fate daggers, combat dagger and combat swords. I am 100% certain it doesn't stack. Would be nice if it did stack a few times and they normalised the attack power bonus or something to even it out. I like hemo, beats Seal Fate for stun-lock, the damage doesn't compare though.

Комментарий от Thottbot

Since hemo doesn't stack on itself, it simply refreshes, the best possible scenario in single group or small raid play is to hemo once then followup with imp sinister strikes. Unfortunately hemo's location deep in the subtelty tree makes this fairly unlikely.

Thats directly from the FAQ on the rogue forum - offical WoW site. No it does not stack, or scale it would seem...

Комментарий от Thottbot

well to start hemo is great but it even though it does only 7+dmg ur crit bonuses are way betetr and every time u crit the crit bonus is great so its not 7+ every time its 7+ mon a normal attack

Комментарий от Thottbot

the formula for hemo is: weapon damage + (AP/14 x weapon speed). so if you have about 800 AP or more, and a relatively slow weapon (2.5+ is good), hemo will do more dmg than SS. supsose you have 1008 AP and a 2.4 speed weapon. so 1008/14=72 , 72 x 2.4=172.8. Thus with 1008 attack power and a 2.4 speed weapon, hemo will add about 173 dmg whereas the top rank of SS will only add about 163. also, as hemo wasnt normalized in 1.8 like SS was, the same AP but a 2.8 weapon speed would result in even higher numbers for hemo, while SS would stay the same. so hemo scales with your gear much more than SS.

Комментарий от Thottbot

With patch 1.12 coming up I wanted to know if Imp SS and Hemo at the same time are worth it since people say that Hemo is great for it's lesser energy cost. Is it worth reducing the energy cost for SS in that case.

I've never used hemo before and since the review lets us change our talents for free I'd like to get some opinions.

BTW I'm a PvP dagger rogue and I'm trying to keep the new Imp Sprint.

Комментарий от Thottbot

I created this nice build and tested it on the Patch 1.12 Public Test Realms and it kicks ass! Just sharing with you guys, You may like it and test it your self if its your type of fighting style :)

-16/0/35-
------------------------
ASSASSINATION
Malice 5/5
Ruthlessness 3/3
Murder 2/2
Relentless Strikes 1/1
Lethality 5/5
------------------------
SUBTLETY
Opportunity 5/5
Master of Deception 5/5
Camouflage 5/5
Initiative 3/3
Improved Sap 3/3
Serrated Blades 3/3
Hemorrhage 1/1
Dirty Deeds 2/2
Heightened Senses 1/2
Preparation 1/1
Deadliness 5/5
Premeditation 1/1
-------------------------
Basicially you bleed your enemy to death

Imp Sap >> Premeditation >> Garrote >> Hemorrhage >> Hemorrhage >> Rupture >> Hemo >> Hemo >> And your enemy would be nearly death by now.

Garrotes damage is improved and it stacks very nice with Rupture. Also could use Deadly Poison
or Instant Poison.

Комментарий от Thottbot

I never said Hemo is DoT moron. Iam just trying to give a good build away. I'm saying Hemo is very good espcially since patch 1.12 came out. Rupture and Garrote is a DoT and stacks very great with Hemo.

Комментарий от Thottbot

Aq20 with a little over 1200 ap with mainhand strikes doing ehh about 250-320 ish white damage non crit. I was Hemo rogue with Dal rend's main hand 2.8 speed 41.4 dps. Very nice damage, I always had a hemo debuff on the target and my evis damage is still very nice (2500+ crits) I was keeping up with a rogue that has 5-6 more epics than I do including daggers. Every time your hemo runs out that's (30x7=210) 210 More damage for the raid and you are easily keeping up with sword spec rogues if you are equally equiped. What's nice is it's easy to add in enough points to make your backstab high damage so you can act like you're not a hemroids rogue.

Комментарий от Thottbot

I guess I'll just have to give it a try with my rogue. Wow, there are a lot of mathematical equations that I have no way of deciphering.

I just remember doing AV and a rogue cheapshotted me and shortly after, I died. I read my combat log and there were multiple instances in the log that said his "hemorrhage hits you for 300 damage." It ranged between 200-400, and I'm not sure if that included weapon damage or if it was additional damage on top of weapon damage. All I know is that I went down fairly quickly. It adds up through time--not to mention that I was stunlocked most of the time.

Комментарий от Thottbot

I've had numerous people scowl at my 17/3/31 talent build. They see it as useless.

They argue that SS and BS do more damage...and miss the WHOLE point to Hemo. Hemo creates a perfect or almost perfect stunlock. PLUS you generate combo points at a CRAZY speed. Hemo is about building combo points and doing multiple finishing moves while holding the enemy under your control, watching him/her die a slow painful death.

Hemo is about style and grace, not power. If you want initial damage go with daggers. If you want to piss your opponent off and then finish with an amazing 2k+ evis then go hemo.

Not going to lie...hemo takes strategy. But it pays off if you know what you're doing. (like NOT using hemo with daggers...I'm sorry, it's not nearly as good as a big fat blade with 140-160+ max dmg) Krol blade FTW!

Комментарий от Thottbot

Hemorrhage + Garrote + Rupture is a finesse dueler's delight. You don't do the crazy burst damage of Ambush/Backstab, but this one can bring those drawn out, heavily armored opponent fights down to a mere few minutes (or even seconds with grenades/trinkets) when played well.

An opener I've been using with great success since switching to sword spec:

Crippling on Main Hand + Deadly on Off Hand (this is just my example - everyone's different)

(( Stealth ))

/lol @ target

or

Distract just to be a dink since players know you're a complete bastard anyway...

Cheap Shot > Hemorrhage > Rupture > Vanish

/lol @ target

(( Sneak, sneak ))

Garrote > Hemorrhage > Hemmorhage > Cold Blood > Eviscerate

It's not the only opener, it might not work for your style, whatever - I do it, and it seems to work well. Of course, include Blind when you get DoTs, run away and re-stealth when need be, etc.

I'm not the best Rogue and I don't have 2319058908594086940584 points in Honor Kills or whatever, but lotsa players do hate me - which has me convinced I must be doing something right.

:-p

My build:

https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/talent=ihefox0oZZE0e0chRo

Комментарий от Thottbot

you dont only do ss or hemo you do

cheap shot (2 or 3 combo point) hemo, ss, (you have now 5 combo and cheap shot will worn off and now you have enough enerdy for kidney shot ( you get a combo point because of the talent in assasination and maybe 25 energy) use ghostly strike for 15% more dodge and a additionnal 7% of gettin a combo by dodging (from the talent) and you ss again get a good main hand and mob will be down and if not just gouge wait it to finish and do eviscerate

so hemo dont replace ss it just add to it

and since full combat is pretty boring since sinister 5 time and evis and start again it can be pretty boring but being a hemo rogue is much more versatile since you use hemo ss and eviscerate its like the tank that before 2.0 was doing sunder sunder and revenge when doable now at least you have devastate lol my friend that is prot own me with devastate and overpower since i dont hit hard enough to finish its 8k health and 13k armour and 415 defense

Комментарий от Thottbot

This spell has replaced my sinister strike. I have it set to my middle mouse button, the scroll button, so I dont even have to hit 1 or 5 any more, Combine this with your eviscerate or kidney shot, and you got it down pat.

Комментарий от Thottbot

Has anyone found a decent hemo MH in TBC? Raiding or otherwise..you know what I'm talking about..something to replace the HWL MH

Комментарий от Thottbot

I keep reading all these comments that focus soley on hemorrage's effect that causes the target to take increased damage. This is just a simple perk, the entire move is not based around it, my rogue does way more damage with hemo than SS due to one simple aspect - critical strikes. Hemo requires less energy than SS and is practically spammable, I do much more damage with hemo than SS due to the increased number of uses and therefore increased number of critical strikes. And to the guy who said any rogue who does not have improved SS shouldn't be playing a rogue, that is one of the worst statements I've ever heard not even taking into account the superior hemorrage.

Комментарий от Thottbot

Hemo is for the ownage.. Good damage and really cheap ability. IT DOES.. YES.. DOES Replace SS. Hemo isn't really for the +7 dmg for 30 hits (well you can view it like that but that's dumb) its for putting on 5 dots quickly, and evis. This compared to combat spec does more DPS overall since Blade Flurry and Adren Rush have cooldowns.. a great PVP/PVE build is Assass/Sub. Get enough to get ColdBlood and Seal Fate, along with Hemo.. Crit hemo puts on 2 points, and you do crazy ass damage.

Комментарий от Thottbot

Uhhhhh - I think you read English at the 3rd grade level. Hemo benefits a rogue best with a slow weapon (hence max top-end damage) in main hand.

Damage Calculator:
Modifier = (Attack Power / 14) * Weapon speed
Lethality = 2 + (0.06 * Lethality Rank)
Normal Hemorrhage Damage = Modifier + Weapon Damage
Critical Hemorrhage Damage = Normal Hemorrhage Damage * Lethality

Hemorrhage is NOT affected by weapon speed normalization, so your weapon speed is one of the the most important factor when determining your damage capability -- 2.7 speed or slower is a must to gain the full benefit of the ability.

If you have high enough Attack Power and a good slow weapon, hemorrhage will eventually do more damage per hit than Sinister Strike in addition to adding the debuff and having cheaper energy cost. However, with the new ranks to Sinister Strike, the AP required is nearly unattainable, typically ranging over 3000.

However, take in to account it uses less energy so you can put more hits in - sweet Mary!

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Кровоизлияние

Кровоизлияние

Талант

Энергия: 35	Дистанция ближнего боя

Мгновенное действие

Резкий удар, наносящий 110% урона от оружия. Увеличивает физический урон от эффектов кровотечения на 29. Действует в течение 10 удара:ударов или 15 sec. Длина серии приемов увеличивается на 1.

Аура

Кровоизлияние

Получаемый урон увеличен на 29 ед.
Осталось: 15 сек.

Свойства заклинания

Длительность

15 сек.

Школа

Физический урон

Механика

нет

Тип рассеивания

нет

Категория ГКД

Обычный

Стоимость

Энергия: 35

Радиус действия

5 метров (Combat)

Время прочтения

Мгновенное действие

Восстановление

нет

ГКД

1 сек.

Вероятность срабатывания ауры

100%

Эффект #1

Normalized Weapon Damage
Значение: 1
PvP-мультипликатор: 1

Эффект #2

Weapon Damage - %
Значение: 110
PvP-мультипликатор: 1

Эффект #3

Apply Aura: Mod Damage Taken (Физический урон)
Значение: 29
PvP-мультипликатор: 1

Метки

способность
Не может быть использовано в облике друида
[Do Not Sheath]
[Aura is Debuff]
[Initiates Combat (Enabled Auto-Attack)]
[Discount Power On Miss]
[No Proc Equip Requirement]
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